Talk:Wii U Excitebike Arena (NinYoda1)

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Thanks for divide the Custom Track Distributions

Thanks for divide the Custom Track Distributions. Okay, when everybody would make it like you than we have the following problem:

e.g.

And now my question. WHERE are the tracks for a other new Custom Track Distributions ?? --Horsti12 (talk) 15:20, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Took me a moment to figure out what Horsti12 was talking about, but I see the rather odd restriction of "Note: This track is only allowed to be used in MKW Hack Pack." Now since NinYoda1 did not edit this page himself, and I don't see it on the video page, I have to ask, where did this arbitrary restriction come from? I see that it was present in the initial edit by Maczkopeti, but where did he get it from?
So to reiterate Horsti's argument, if one distro gets exclusive use of a certain track, where does it stop? What then is the point of releasing a track to the public? For me, releasing a level is done for the community. For everyone to enjoy, or perhaps even revile. Restricting a level to a certain distro goes against the community spirit that this wiki strives to encourage, and fragments the user base. Want to play Track X then Track Y? Sorry, but they're in different distros, bro.
That's also why our Published Works Policy states that "Your are only allowed to post freely usable content on this wiki." The meaning has always been that any finished track released here can be used in any distro. It would seem, however, that the etiquette section contradicts this stance by stating that "Custom content added to the Wiiki can be included in any Distribution unless specifically prohibited by the content's author." However, the usage thus far of the etiquette clause has been to prohibit alphas, proofs-of-concept and other unfinished levels from being added to ANY distro, with the understanding that finished levels are to freely usable. This statement has never been used to restrict usage to a certain distro, at least to my knowledge. If it has, it shouldn't have happened and violates our policy.
Bottom line is this: If a track is posted here, and if it is allowed in one distro, then it's allowed to be added to any distro. No playing favorites. If you don't want the whole community to play your track, then don't release it.--Jefe (talk) 17:02, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
I only added that note because of this and this, but I agree with you.
--maczkopeti (talk) 17:10, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. I've notified both parties to read the discussion here.--Jefe (talk) 17:22, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
In the first place, Excitebike was never published on this wiki, that's why I estimate to have the right to choose to which pack it can go.
Secondly, you say: "Restricting a level to a certain distro goes against the community spirit that this wiki strives to encourage, and fragments the user base." then why has you we not access to tracks in the file CTGP and why the track " star slope " are reserved that has the update CTGP? Thank you.(talk) 20:15, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
The problem is that you restrict the track to one distro while it has a public download. Star Slope v1.0, on the other hand, doesn't have one.
--maczkopeti (talk) 18:26, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, you're here now, NinYoda1, and you're certainly aware of your track's addition to the wiki, and most importantly you've made a public release of the track while also attempting to restrict it to one distribution which to my knowledge, no other track author has done and is a paradoxical position at best. As a level creator, I try to get as many people to download my levels as possible. If I were to place arbitrary restrictions on who could use it (No distros with the letter G in the name!) it would not only be silly but it would be counter-productive to the goal of getting people to play my level.

I can't speak for the creators of CTGP or Star Slope, but latest public release of Star Slope appears to be on the wiki, but it seems the track was removed from CTGP at some point in the past, so I don't understand your issue about that track, nor does it seem to be relevant to this discussion.--Jefe (talk) 20:13, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

I think he's talking about how v1.0 of Star Slope will be only available in the next version of CTGP. (Look in the description.)
--maczkopeti (talk) 20:52, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

I have officially decided to break my agreement with NinYoda1. I only wanted to do it because my distribution is new and with CTGP getting a major update I was honestly concerned that the small amount of people I have playing my distribution would just go over to that distribution and I would have no one playing mine (unrealistic assumption I realize, but I wanted this to be something special). Call me unfair, call me greedy, call me what you want to, but if you had a new distribution, would you not want to do everything in your power to make people come to it? So I took a risk, and this is the result. I'm not a proud guy at all, I will back down if necessary. Huili (talk) 21:04, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Also, I think it will help to put this here: Skype Huili (talk) 21:32, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Ok, I see what Torran is trying to do Star Slope now, and while I don't agree with it, it doesn't violate our policy because he hasn't made a public release of the track. I do understand the desire to make your distro unique, Huili, but there are other ways to do that. For one thing CTGP doesn't get major track updates very often, so you're in a position to add newly released or fixed tracks more quickly. But I do not believe exclusivity arrangements are beneficial for the MK community as a whole. --Jefe (talk) 22:33, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
I understand Jefe, that's why I'm not going to bother making exclusive arrangements anymore, NinYoda1 is on his own if he wants to keep his tracks only in my distribution, as much as I don't prefer the idea anymore it is his choice. I will tolerate whatever he does. As far as I'm concerned I'm done talking here, I made up my mind and I'm not going back on my decision.Huili (talk) 15:56, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Now you're saying that you won't fix a bug in Temple Bay if Excitebike Arena gets added to the CTGP track wishlist? That's the stupidest thing i've heard all day.

If you really don't want the track in other distributions, make the download private and I'll delete the page.
--maczkopeti (talk) 07:26, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Ok Maczkopeti, delete all track Amergamer has put too, if I would to see my tracks here, I can post myself, thanx.
--NinYoda1 (talk) 11:55, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
What is the point of deleting those tracks from the wiki? They all had public download links and I simply made an easier way to get to most of your works (without registration). --CT creator Emer, (talk here) 11:56, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
NinYoda1, our mission at the Wiiki is to catalog user-made content and make it freely available to the public, so I would prefer that your tracks remain listed. As a general rule, anyone can add tracks that have been made available to the public. And Emer said, having them listed here is a good thing because it helps promote your tracks and increase the likelihood that people will enjoy them. The entire issue to this point is attempting to restrict usage to otherwise freely available tracks - which runs counter to our mission. Huili has already said he is no longer interested in pursuing exclusivity. So please explain your reluctance to include your tracks in other distributions or have them listed here. I can think of no logical reasons, only emotional ones. --Jefe (talk) 20:07, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

About publishing someone else's content to this wiki

Hi, sorry for necroposting (or whatever it's called). I came across this page and I wanted to share my opinion about the last three messages. If I understood correctly, Emer published some of NinYoda1's work on this wiki and NinYoda1 asked for it to be removed because he/she/they didn't want that to be on this wiki. The point raised against NinYoda1's requests was that the work in question was already public so Emer had the right to publish it here. In the end, Jefe stated that "as a general rule, anyone can add tracks that have been made available to the public". I'm assuming that this still holds (even though it's been more than five years so I might be wrong on this point), so that's why I'd like to discuss it.

I don't think that if person A publishes his work somewhere in the Internet then person B automatically has the moral right to publish it somewhere else, even when crediting person A (by moral right I just mean that my point has nothing to do with legality or DMCA claims or whatever). That is because it is person A's work, so only they should decide where to publish it. I do agree that person A would have a hard time "enforcing" that if they made a public release. And I do agree with Jefe when he/she/they said "I can think of no logical reasons, only emotional ones". But I do not think Jefe's argument is enough to conclude that person B should be free to publish person A's work somewhere else: it's still person A's work, and they have the moral right to just not feel like wanting their work published on certain platforms.

In this particular case, I think NinYoda1 had the moral right to remove the CTs in question from this wiki, since they were published here by someone else. Regardless of what the "mission at the Wiiki" is.

I don't know what the published works policy was like in 2015, but I think it's clear and good enough in its current form. So if person A from above were to publish a CT on this wiki, person B would have the moral right to publish it somewhere else too, because person A has read that policy and it clearly states that "Custom content, once added to the Wiiki, [...] may get mirrored by Wiiki users even if the original download link is deleted". But I don't think that if person A were to publish it in a public discord server, like for example the one from CT jams, then person B would have the moral right to publish it here too.

Just to be clear, I do think that the part of the published works policy that states that "If content not available on the Wiiki will be included in a distribution available on the Wiiki, either the track author or the distribution author must publish that content on the Wiiki, too" is good (as long as the distribution author had the permission from the track author to include it into the distribution in the first place), so I agree with all of the people who were asking for Wii U Excitebike Arena (NinYoda1) to stay published on this wiki. This is not the point of my argument.

I hope I was clear enough, though it's very much possible that I wasn't, so feel free to ask questions. -- Cealgair (talk|contribs) 14:54, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

My personal view on the topic is that this Wiiki was created to host content so that many people who are new to the scene can come in and experience all of the creations the community has made. Therefore, I am personally a believer that all content should be able to be added to the Wiiki if, and only if, it is released in a public sense. Like with your example with the CT Jam Discord, anybody can join that Discord, as the link is readily available. It is even linked directly here from the Wiiki. Anybody could make a Discord account in a minute, enter the server, and go and download the tracks. The idea that there should be restrictions as to whether or not content should be added to the Wiiki is counter productive. If many new people only know of the Wiiki, and another creator releases content outside of the scope of the Wiiki, not as many people will know about it, and what is the point of releasing something publicly if you're not going to do it in a way that people will see it?
But anyway, the main point of this argument was that the tracks were available in MKW Hack Pack. Hack Pack is available here, on the Wiiki, and unlike CTGP it does not encrypt the files in any way. Therefore, anyone could come onto the Wiiki, download MKW Hack Pack, and copy the file from that pack into another place. Therefore, they did not believe it should be deleted from the Wiiki since it was already on the Wiiki, just in a different download. I hope this answers your remaining questions about this discussion, if not let me know. Do also note that the policies have changed since 2015 when this originally occurred. Trainiax/SwampyGator (talk) 03:30, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Let's start with the points on which I agree with you, Trainiax. I agree with you that the mission of this Wiiki is to host content for the purposes you wrote, and I think it is a good mission. I also agree that only publicly released content should be published here. And I agree that the case of Wii U Excitebike Arena (NinYoda1) was well sorted, although I think the discussion also was about other tracks that weren't necessarily in the hack pack, but I might be wrong on that.
With that said, I do not think that if something is publicly released in some sense then it should (1) be published on the Wiiki. By that I mean that it would be wrong, for example, if I just went ahead and published on the Wiiki some of the officially unreleased tracks from the CT Jam. I wrote "should (1)" instead of simply "should" because I'm about to use that verb in a different sense and I could not think of any better solution, so apologies for that. I do think that it should (2) be published on the Wiiki. By that I mean that it would be really cool to have a place where all of the custom content is hosted, which as we said before is the mission of this Wiiki. But if a person made something and doesn't want it to be on this Wiiki, it's their work and they have the right to not have it on the Wiiki, assuming this doesn't break the published work policy. This explains why I don't think everything should (1) be published on this Wiiki. I don't think I have to explain why I think everything should (2) be published here because I assume you agree with me on that.
At this point I'd like to address some less ideological and more practical topics. From what I've seen (which is not a lot actually), it's not very common that someone publishes on the Wiiki pieces of content on behalf of someone else without permission. So I don't think this is really a problem right now. On the other hand, I think that the attitude by some people in this Wiiki when asking for content to be published here should change a little. For example, look at what KantoEpic wrote here. I think he should have written something more along the lines of "Hey, do you mind if we publish your stuff here so that more people could see it?" instead of "I don't see the reason why that isn't published here, you're just acting counterproductively". If anything, just for the sake of being polite: it's not his own work after all. I do see that he attempted to contact BillyNoodles on this, but given that he wrote "notified" instead of "asked" I'm inclined to think that his attitude wasn't much different. I obviously might be wrong on this though, since I haven't read the chat on Discord. -- Cealgair (talk|contribs) 09:56, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
How do you define "publishing a track on the wiki"? This wiki is a public resource that everyone (with an account) can create pages on, like Wikipedia. I don't need permission from Nintendo to make a Wikipedia article about Mario Kart Wii (neither legally nor morally), so I see no reason why I would need permission from a track author to create a tockdom page about his Custom Track. And as for the download links, if someone publicly posts a track download on his Youtube video or Discord channel for everyone to see, then it should also be no problem to add a link to that to a Wiki page, same as for normal Wikipedia pages. If someone makes a software and posts that onto his website to download, then everyone can decide to make a Wikipedia article about that and link to the download so that everyone reading the Wiki article can find and download that software.
I agree that that might be different if the download link is only available to a closed group of people, but if it's been published somewhere where everyone can see it, then it's just the nature of the internet that people can write about it and include the download link to a file that's been uploaded by the track author himself.
Tracks aren't being "published" here. Articles about tracks are being written here.
-- Leseratte (talk) 10:38, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
I don't really think that writing an article about a CT on this Wiiki is not a big deal. This is because, once something is on this Wiiki, the published works policy applies to it (which, by the way, is the reason why I used the verb "to publish"). For example, the author of the CT in question might not want his CT to be edited by other people, or to be included in some distributions. So they might not agree with that policy and therefore not want their work hosted on this Wiiki. Wikipedia does not have a similar policy to my knowledge, so I don't think your comparison with it is really important to my point.
Of course, I think the CT author would have a tough time enforcing their will if they made their work publicly available through a download link. But I think they still hold the moral right to prevent others to modify their content or to include it in distributions. And maybe even the legal right, although not being a lawyer I'm not really sure about this. -- Cealgair (talk|contribs) 10:57, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

RC1.hp?

Which version of Wii U Excitebike Arena is this a version of MKW Hack Pack? no this. https://www.chadsoft.co.uk/time-trials/leaderboard/16/040384F5E6FA408FFA2A9321EAD6C0E3C880D8C3/00.html Sergio Gimenez Alcaraz (talk) 14:20, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

It is "RC1.hp1", which I published just now. --KantoEpic (talk) 05:30, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
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