Talk:HAL DAT (File Format)
Please post new edits at bottom.
Relevance
I usually don't monitor the tech/research pages all that much, but does this page have any relevance to MKWii? If not, then why is it here?
I don't have any particular objection to hosting technical pages for other games, I'm just curious. --Jefe (talk) 02:47, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
- Nevermind, I see where you asked Wiimm if you could make this. --Jefe (talk) 04:28, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
- Not sure if we need this. It might be helpful if people wanted to port courses from either of those games.
- -- Suigetsu, the transformation (talk) 07:20, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
- sorry I failed to mention it has no relation to MKW...
- there's no other wikis that talk about nintendo formats, which is why I asked here.
- I'd rather not post on Wikipedia due to their legality issues.
- if you would consider leaving it on here as an un-referenced page, it would greatly help out the other communities working with this format. :)
- (we despirately need an updated wiki for this format)
- but if you do consider deleting it, could you at least email me the page data. :)
- (I'm currently on my wii for a few more hours till I can turn on my compy)
- I personally like the idea to add as many (Nintendo) file formats as possible to the wiki even if they have little to no impact to MKW. We don't know how long other websites will host their informations. Though I think we have to add a category for File Formats which are not related to MKW plus the information which games use it being a requirement.
- Tock (talk) 23:43, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
- that being said, a wiki page is slightly easier to manage, and much more public than a thread, unless of course you give the board (and every thread in it) the ability to allow members/visitors full control over post editing... then a thread's only a tad harder, but that's it.
- (you still can't edit the full page unless you make 1 large post, but then you can't edit individual sections)
- Tcll (talk) 03:02, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Permission to create a new file-format page
(copied from user talk:Wiimm)
Hey there, I'd just like to know if I can create a new page describing the Melee/Kirby Air-Ride (HAL) GCN *.DAT model format here?? I think it would greatly help out the communities to have such a page. :)
Tcll (talk) 20:41, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
- Do it! -- Wiimm (talk) 21:19, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
- Page created! thanks =)
- http://wiki.tockdom.com/wiki/HAL_DAT_(File_Format)
- I'm not sure where to put it though, so I'll leave that up to someone else. :P
- (I'll just post links to it everywhere else (in the Melee Communities on forums))
- hopefully I'm not too boastful on it. :P
also... if it's alright if I may question...
why limit discussions to only MKW??
Can't we have a break-off section to talk about other games such as Brawl??
(sure Brawl shares the MDL0 format, in which the differences are noted in the MKW MDL0 format)
There's more games cared about than just MKW, so again, why limit?? :/
Tcll (talk) 13:44, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
- Simple Reasons against it: This is a MKWii Wiki.
- Pro Reasons: A chance to gather more technical info about Nintendos games and consoles.
- But I will not decide, which way we go. The community must do it.
- Wiimm (talk) 20:57, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
- Wiimm: This is a MKWii Wiki.
- Tcll: a break-off section
- ;)
- Wiimm: A chance to gather more technical info about Nintendos games and consoles.
- I'd call that a +1
- The more info we have about other games/formats, the better it will be to port them if needed.
- But then again, I'm the one working on a model converter between all games and systems, so of course I'd say that. :P
- We'll see what the community decides...
Posting some of my code
just posting a small update to help other hackers where they need it...
if there's any negatives from being on the page, I can link to it off another page. ;)
(just tell me and I'll do it)
I personally don't like keeping code private because nobody can learn from it.
the wiki also gives me a chance to make it more visually informative than in the script alone. :)
again, if you guys have anything against it, please let me know, and I'll fix it up ;)
Tcll (talk) 18:32, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
- can't seem to get a box that's collapsed by default...
- if there's an extension to allow the use of the onclick event, I can do it manually, and make it look nicer with this:
<div style="float:right; position:relative; left: -80px; width:1px;">[<span style="color:rgb(0,43,184); cursor:pointer;"onclick="if (this.innerHTML=='Collapse') {this.innerHTML='Expand'; document.getElementsById('code').style.display='none'}else {this.innerHTML='Collapse'; document.getElementsById('code').style.display=''};">Expand]<div id="code" style="display:none"> content here- it probably has errors as I'm not able to test it :P
- Tcll (talk) 15:09, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
easier identification of pointers
To help people understand things a bit better,
since pointers and unsigned ints are the same thing, aside from what they do, I'll be renaming the formats for pointers.
Tcll (talk) 15:21, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Bone vs Joint
Can you post your reasoning behind choosing to name it "Bone" instead of "Joint".
I can't think of any reason to call it a bone and the files string table refers to them as whatevername_joint.
Perhaps to differentiate between the other joint types (matanim_joint, shapejoint)? but that would suggest you call those something other than what the file names them.
It seems like an unneccessary diversion. --Shuall (talk) 12:29, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Bones are common nomenclature in 3D modelling/animation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_animation
- For extra information, look into Blender and UMC-scripting.
- That's not the only term change either:
- - Vertex -> Facepoint
- - Vertice/Vertex Position -> Vert
- - TexCoord -> UV
- and more
- Personally, I chose these terms for 2 reasons:
- - they are some of the most commonly used among various software groups (that I've seen)
- - they just make the most sense and fit the best identification for the data (they're easy for noobs to understand)
- Tcll (talk) 14:46, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
- (and so continues another "joint" vs "bone" naming discussion)
- The term "joint" is used just as commonly as "bone". As I see it they are interchangeable (not entirely, but here, yes), so I'm still confused why you chose to call it a bone even though the file, and all existing documentation when referring to that structure in a nintendo dat file, call it a joint?
- I imagine it would be better to just leave a note that "Joints" are often also called bones in other applications.
- The "Facepoint" and "Vert" names seem fine, because the file doesn't call them anything, so they are as good a name as any, but "TexCoord" and "Joint" are things that exist in GX documentation, and in the root strings respectively, so those names seem to be already established for nintendo files, and it could be confusing to diverge from them.
- Actually, the point is legit despite these being my docs.
- The termage differences are what cause confusions, especially when a "bone" is called "joint" in a program's source.
- But that offence is very minor, I've seen sources where both the facepoint and vertices were named "vertex".
- So this whole ordeal with my docs is to provide a common ground using terms that make the most sense rather than calling them what they are and just adding to the already existant confusion.
- If you associate "bone" to a structure named after "joint", the logic behind that makes the structure easier to understand.
- A more difficult example would be "TexCoord" vs "UV(Coord)" where you'd need to understand where "UV" comes from. (it's basically OpenGL vs Blender here)
- The final factor in derermining the termage for UVs is basically the 1-word vs 2-word scenario, making "UV" more easily understandable when knowing nothing about 3D.
- Truthfully "UV Coords" should really be called "ST Coords", but I believe the UV comes from the back-buffer where the uvs are evaluated.
just a quick final Q on this topic
I know this page has been here for a while, but the attitudes about this page's existence have been bugging me the whole time...
I finally have my own wiki now, so if you guys want, I can move it there, and I'll let you guys decide what to do with the reference.
I know Tock said he was cool with the page and liked the idea of expanding, but I can't help but feel I'm in a place where I don't belong with this page.
so lemme know if you guys think I should move it.
Tcll (talk) 01:01, 21 March 2016 (UTC)